The Language of Creativity Podcast
Death And Snow, a poem – Nat Magnuson (Poet)

Death And Snow, a poem – Nat Magnuson (Poet)

January 13, 2021

Death And Snow, a poem by Nat Magnuson.


Silver Grain Art

2020 Hindsight – Christiane Kinney (Celtic Musician/Entertainment Attorney) Ep.14

2020 Hindsight – Christiane Kinney (Celtic Musician/Entertainment Attorney) Ep.14

December 29, 2020

AB-5 sucks! Covid sucks! Zoom school SUCKS! 2020 pretty much sucked. But you know what doesn’t suck? Being an everyday hero like our guest Christiane Cargill Kinney.


As an entertainment lawyer, Christiane Kinney has represented Platinum-selling and Grammy-winning artists and estates as well as independent artists, Presidential candidates, festivals, music tech start-ups, artists, and avatars (wha!?). A consummate creative, Chris is also an award-winning singer/songwriter, a voting member of the Recording Academy, and has won numerous awards from Billboard, ASCAP, the International Songwriting Competition, and the Global Music Awards, to name a few. 


She’s been recognized as the #1 Music Law Resource to follow on Twitter (by CD Baby), and was named in Glamour Magazine’s Woman of the Year issue for her charity work in bringing music and art programs to at-risk youth in Southern California. A frequent speaker on entertainment law panels, radio talk shows, Chris wrote a regular legal advice column for CD Baby to provide legal guidance to independent artists. Yet somehow on top of all this, she’s also a recording musician, a mom of two and still manages to stay constantly upbeat with a wicked sense of humor!


In this episode, Steve and Chris discuss the pitfalls and joys(?) of the new normal: Zoom work, Zoom school, house concerts, social media meltdowns, and the melee that is parenting during quarantine. And as if the rest of 2020 wasn’t enough, Chris was thrown a curveball along with the rest of us when the entertainment industry shut down in the wake of COVID-19. Undaunted, Chris saw this as an opportunity to found her own entertainment law firm, Kinney Law, P.C. in June of 2020, focusing on ways she could help artists and offset the substantial loss in touring revenue during these unprecedented times.


Christiane discovered her love for the piano when she was only three years old. After seeing the musical production “Annie,” she immediately went home and plinked out all the songs by ear. As Chris recalls,  “...There were moments in those shows where the artists I’m sure were tapping into the soul of their instruments.” Chris and Steve go on to geek out about their love for pianos and explore what it was that got them into music. As Chris says, “I think every musician will tell you, there's not a choice... you just have to do it... it calls to you in a really deep, meaningful way where, that is what you do.”


Will this be the “MOST DEPRESSING PODCAST EVER!”? or will laughter prevail as the best medicine? You be the judge!

Featured Music:

Earnestine by Christiane Cargill Kinney

Isle of Skye by Christiane Cargill Kinney​

Christiane Kinney:


Law Practice: 

Kinney Law



Artist side:

Almost (Album) by Christiane Cargill Kinney
Riddle the Sphinx


Personal: website

Pepperdine Alum Spotlight

Instagram: @musicalredhead

Twitter: @musicalreadhead             


Charitable Foundation:


Episode References:

Sean Kinney:,,

World Record of Jumping Jacks while on Fire

Hollywood Clown (Book by Jason Lassen)

Don’t Call Us Tori (how Steve and Christiane met)
Ruthann Friedman: "Everyone Knows it’s Windy" (made famous by The Association)

David Peters, Oak House Recording Studios

Killarney Star, IG: @killarney_star

Elizabeth (Libbie) Schrader

Gilli Moon
Marina V
Christo Pellani -
Don Teschner and the WaterDawgs

Marvel Jensen


LA Times: "What a year it was: A 2020 Timeline" (California lockdown begins March 14, 2020)
[you can postpone the paywall by launching the above link in a private browsing window]
A look back at LA County hiking trail closures (ModernHiker)

AB-5 (background)

LA TIMES: "The AB5 backlash: Singers, actors, dancers, theaters sound off on freelance law" "America's Rural/Urban Divide: A Special Series"


Blurred Lines lawsuit (can you look for?) 

Pharell & Rick Rubin interview

“Word Crimes” by Weird Al Yankovic
(Which is NOT an example of the point I was making, it is a direct parody of “Blurred Lines”)

Albuquerque, By Weird Al Yankovic, is said to be written in the style of “Dick’s Automotive” by The Rugburns.


Exclaim!*@#: “Vanilla Ice ​Apparently Owns the Rights to 'Under Pressure'”
CD Baby DIY Musician: Understanding music copyrights, Form PA and SR


Power Distance Index, explained (article)
Malcolm Gladwell, Outliers (GoodReads)


Luke Bryan - Rain Is A Good Thing (“Rain makes corn, corn makes whiskey”)
Jeff Richmond (Tina Fey’s husband)
The Firm

Awaken with JP
Ready Player One (film)

Ready Player One (book)



Tags: Freelancing, VR, house concerts, covid, quarantine, losing your job, filter-bubbles, Blurred Lines lawsuit, attorney, Pharrell, Thicke, copyright, binge watching, dinner and a show, Zoom fatigue, Burning Man, avatars, community, meditation, Karens, memes, echo chamber, FAANG, precedent, declaratory judgment, IP litigation, musicologists, samples, audio mixing, copyright infringement, songwriting, streaming, riots, dystopia, Idiocracy, Ready Player One, AB-5, independent contractor, 1099, loan-out corporations, Disney+, Hamilton,making puzzles, Annie, piano, pipe organ, nunnery, St. Joseph’s, performance art, bucket list, professional clowns, Robert De Niro drum circle, Guinness Book of World Records, Roger Corman, Don't Call Us Tori, SXSW, giving back, Children of the Night, #everydayhero, the power of sleep, personal power, boundaries


Language of Creativity’s host Steven Leavitt enjoys discussing the ins and outs of all aspects of creating, creativity, and life with his fellow creators: artists, inventors, designers, producers and more. Along the way he hopes to gain perspective and multiply our understanding of what we share in common while creating, living, and learning.





Please review this podcast on Google Play, iTunes and Stitcher and help other creatives find their tribe! The idea and concept of tribe has never been so inclusive as now in our interconnected reality. We’d love for you all to join us.

What Do You Want To Be When You Grow Up? – Terese Anthony (Career Counselor) Ep.13

What Do You Want To Be When You Grow Up? – Terese Anthony (Career Counselor) Ep.13

November 18, 2020

What does it mean to find meaningful work? How do we decide what path our lives will take without letting life dictate our path to us? Today we talk about something most adults will spend most of their lives doing: work.


Terese Anthony is a college career counselor who also happens to be a world-traveled modern-day renaissance woman. From bullfighting in Costa Rica to bartending to getting chased by sharks in Hawaii (spoiler alert!) to an PhD program with an aim at working for the United Nations. Acknowledging her love for helping people, Therese went back to school while raising two children that led her to her current path. But is this the her final stop? She is also a hobbyist photographer with a creative and entrepreneurial spirit.


As Terese and Steven discuss their lives’ work so far, we get to hear stories of the best laid plans of mice, lemons out of lemonade, leaps of faith, doing what you love, being on a tiny bus with a flat tire surrounded by a pride of lions, what motivated her to leave her humdrum marketing gig to gain something more than the money. 


We geek out about personality types, and learn how each of us can use the RIASEC test to find our strengths, core values and competencies to make sure we’re fulfilling our best selves in work and in life. As fellow ENFPs, creatives, and entrepreneurs with a drive to succeed, Steve and Terese grapple with how to utilize their strengths, overcome life’s practicalities and challenges, and achieve balance with life and work’s desires and needs. 


PS. Steve guessed his Holland Code wrong in the episode, he is actually AIS (Artistic Investigative Social), the same as Terese’s top three (SAI)!


To reach out to Therese, contact


Steven Leavitt (host) –

I Create Sound –


Terese Anthony:


Additional music: 

Nothing Wrong (by Lobate Scarp)

After Quarantine (by The Oceanographers)

guitar improvisation (by Josh Dobrowner)


Onet Online:

Costa Rican bullfighting:


Hawaii Pacific University:

United Nations:

Giriama People:

Youth At Risk:

Myers Briggs:

Career Development and Advisement:

Holland Code/RIASEC Test:

About the RIASEC test:

Daniel Pink:

A Whole New Mind:


Understanding The RIASEC

Realistic: practical, physical, concrete, hands-on, machine, and tool-oriented

Investigative: analytical, intellectual, scientific, explorative, thinker

Artistic: creative, original, independent, chaotic, inventive, media, graphics, and text

Social: cooperative, supporting, helping, healing/nurturing, teaching

Enterprising: competitive environments, leadership, persuading, status

Conventional: detail-oriented, organizing, clerical

Tags: careers, colleges, anthropology, sociology, Denmark, career counseling, type-1 diabetic, United Nations, polymath, parenthood, grad-school, Hawaii, sharks, safari, travel, Costa Rica, Antarctica, photography, marketing, personality types, ENFP, artistic, polymath, travel, drumming, Kenya, Hawaii, idealism, motivation, Epcot Center, Chile, Antarctica, nonprofits, parenthood, happiness, work, time, reflection, maternity leave, career research, core values, worklifebalance, grad school, phd, working backwards, advisor, vibe, intuition, lions, riasec, Holland Code, Myers Briggs, personality tests, Realistic, Investigative, Artistic, Social, Enterprising, Conventional, potential, bartender, MBTI, cognitive functions, authenticity, education, priorities, money, entrepreneur, left-brained, right-brained, outofthebox, photography, tradegroups, find your passion, stretch-goals, expectation gap, corporate culture, internships, web design, Office Space

BONUS! Discovering The Artist’s Way – Monica Berning (Listener)

BONUS! Discovering The Artist’s Way – Monica Berning (Listener)

October 23, 2020

A first for us, listener-feedback episode!

When I called Monica, she had just lost her job (that she hated). WOO HOO!!! (That part we hadn't hit record for).

We talk about my ideas for the bigger picture of the podcast as well as a little about her new foray into the amazing book The Artist's Way.

Guest: Monica Berning (
Host: Steven Leavitt (

The online podcast community where we met:
Many many more main episodes to come soon!
If you haven't, go check out Episode 1- Naming the Podcast

and of course, share, subscribe and review!

BONUS! The Playing Room – Caleb (First Grader)

BONUS! The Playing Room – Caleb (First Grader)

September 15, 2020

In this very special Bonus Episode, Steve and his son Caleb talk about a very important topic - PLAYING!

Unfiltered – Steven Leavitt (Host)

Unfiltered – Steven Leavitt (Host)

July 2, 2020

Steve just hits publish! In this (very first) solo episode Steve reflects on the inner-work of the past 6 months.

Keywords: #thefuture #lettinggo #thebeach #clearing #covid #quarantine #movement #struggle #slowingdown #sadness #overwhelm #innerwork #authenticity

The Ocean – Justin Miyamoto (The Oceanographers) Ep.12

The Ocean – Justin Miyamoto (The Oceanographers) Ep.12

March 3, 2020

Justin Miyamoto explores concepts like the ocean, space and time-travel to convey the human experience of love, joy and struggle through songwriting as a form of journaling. The Oceanographers’ musical style mirrors the tides of Hawaii as Justin and Steve muse about the similarities between water and the inner world of emotions.


Originally from Southern California, he moved to Hawaii to find like minded creatives and make music and to be closer to family. When he got there, he was surprised to find his own experiences in his new home woven throughout the narrative of lyrics he’d written while in LA, finalizing the album with a beautiful song inspired by his new home.  “It makes me want to create art that has a purpose that really transcends our everyday existence into something better.”


Justin and Steve discuss how personality types influence creativity, balancing lofty metaphors while staying relatable to your audience, and graphic design. How do two people collaborate while 2500 miles apart? How do you know if you are on the right course with a creative project? In this episode of the podcast, you’ll hear two long term friends grapple with personal and creative growth while experiencing the expressive music of Justin and the Oceanographers.


Featured Music:

Questions - The Oceanographers LP

Submarine - (From The Submarine EP)

Swept Away - The Oceanographers LP

Hawaii - (Live)/The Oceanographers LP

Tribal Song - The Oceanographers LP

Back In Time - (Live)


Guest: Justin Miyamoto


Submarine - The Oceanographers

Instagram: @theoceanographers, @justinmiyamoto @orchestrateddesign


New Song! (Co-produced by Steven Leavitt and I Create Sound): "After Quarantine"

Host: Steven Leavitt

To connect with Steven about the Artist Advisement Session Justin spoke about, fill out the contact form at 


Tags: Creativity, Water, Emotion, Hawaii, Ocean, Space, Time-Travel, Myers-Briggs, Personality Types, ENFP, Design, Music Videos, Independent Musician, Hilo, Santa Clarita, California, Southern California, Morality, Ethics, Journaling, Personal Growth, Lyrics, Songwriting, Religion, Nature, Faith, Spirituality, Musician, Oceanography, Love, Grief, Inspiration, Astrology, Water Sign, Water, Emotional Language, Moon, Tides, Sensitivity

The Times They Are a Changin – Toni Koch (Artist Promotions) Ep.11

The Times They Are a Changin – Toni Koch (Artist Promotions) Ep.11

January 24, 2020

Toni Koch is an Independent Artist Promoter from Phoenix, Arizona. Toni found her tribe in the late 70s and early 80s movement when folk was overtaken by disco. A songwriter first, Toni began working at record stores like Zia Records and Tower Records and soon began to DJ in local clubs. Then local area promoter Danny Zelisko gave her a shot at doing something new: forming a street-team to promote national artists who were touring through Arizona in exchange for free LPs!

Very much a part of the counterculture and not very at home in a dress, Toni couldn’t believe that the executives would send cases of Barbara Streisand and only two copies of U2. 1983-84 was some of the very first signs of the Indie music ethos coming to the streets.

Her work allowed her to experience some of the earliest days of phenoms like Billy Joel, Bruce Springsteen, Bonnie Raitt and Tori Amos, and when a fiery young independent Australian artist name Gilli Moon came to America to find a break, Toni was able to get her an opening spot for Simple Minds at the Celebrity Theater.

Gilli would go on to found Warrior Girl Music and the independent songwriter association SongsAlive! and the two moved to Los Angeles where Toni stayed for 11 years until her recent return home to Phoenix.

Toni says “My whole life has been about adjusting to the need of changes.” In this episode we dive a little into the spiritual perspective, seeing through the underlying symbolism of life and her belief that ultimately “it’s not about the money.” We also talk about the dominance of Clear Channel radio and all the changes that brought, as well as delving into questions about how an artist can take-in professional feedback while still staying true to themselves.

Her best advice to young artists is “Whatever anybody else has told you to be, get over it and be who you are.”

This episode is brought to you by I Create Sound. With just a single call, we can help you sound your very best! Arizona Songwriters members get special pricing on the first 5 sessions by mentioning the offer in this show.

Featured Art:

Dark Side (written by Toni Koch and Joy Neumann, performed by Toni Koch)

Million Dollar Noise (written and performed by Toni Koch)


Guest: Toni Koch




Host: Steven Leavitt




Additional music: Nothing Wrong (by Lobate Scarp)


Resources and references mentioned in today’s podcast:

Danny Zelisko -

Arizona Songwriters Association (Jon Iger) -

John and JoAnn Braheny -

Shannon Hurley -

Lovers And Poets -


Marcia Reynolds -

“Coach The Person, Not The Problem” (book, formerly titled Reflective Inquiry)


Colon Darrel Harrison -

Toni Koch and Carl Percival -


Gilli Moon -
Gill Moon, “Be” -

Songs Alive -

SongNET -

Stephen Bannon (the one you like!) -

Please review this podcast on Google Play, iTunes and Stitcher and help other creatives find their tribe!

Tags: music, indie music, promotion, Don't Call Us Tori, record stores, vinyl, disco, folk, Amy Clarke, Derek Horne, TRL (Total Request Live!), songwriter, performer, artists, mentor, coach, Wayne Dyer, predicting earthquakes, astrology, numerology, reflective inquiry, change, DIY, napster


Renaissance Troubadour – Dustin Stonebrook (composer, engineer, guitarist) Ep. 10

Renaissance Troubadour – Dustin Stonebrook (composer, engineer, guitarist) Ep. 10

November 6, 2019

What is it like playing in a real recording studio? What does it take to set yourself apart as a musician? Steven Leavitt sits down with his friend and colleague Dustin Stonebrook to talk about studio musicians and audio engineering, and how a true professional is someone who has learned how to check their ego at the door.


Dustin is a true renaissance man, originally from Texas, who left the path toward law-school and moved out to California to become a stunt-man. Then the Writer’s Strike struck the film-industry, aborting his big-break that would have been on the show Prison Break. Undaunted, Stonebrook made the shift toward music, leaning on his guitar playing, his composing skills, and his electrical engineering knowhow. Having held down “steady” jobs the audio-electronics business, he had an epiphany about his life path that led him to take the leap from working a 9-5 job to going freelance. We also talk about the tragic life event that inspired Dustin to pick up the guitar at an early age.


The two touch on the craft of songwriting, and why not everyone can make a good CD. He also shares about the projects he is in development that center around his love of the Horror genre. 

We also talk about his latest composition, Shadows Requiem featuring violinist/violist Kaitlin Wolfberg.


Featured Music:

Shadows Requiem by Dustin Stonebrook

Tell The Road The Truth by Dustin Stonebrook

Haunting by Dustin Stonebrook

Sunday by High And Dry (


Guest: Dustin Stonebrook

Twitter @dstonebrook

Instagram @dustinstonebrook


This episode is brought to you by I Create Sound, 

“It’s like having a producer in your pocket. 

Setup a call and find out how to get Sound Advice for your Music Life™”



@beatnikwolfgirl (Kaitlin Wolfberg)

Musician's Institute (



Working musician, renaissance man, music, lyrics, composing, songwriting, recording, session musicians, audio engineering, performing, working without ego, going freelance, disappearing into your role, Leland Sklar, Sid Jacobs, epiphany, The Red Violin, Kaitlin Wolfberg, The Ludivico, Ludovico Einaudi, horror, The Crypt Keeper, ghosts, haunted mansions, cover bands, philosophical, cymatics, electronics, vacuum tubes, vibrations, electrons, bozons, quarks

The Colors of Life – Wendy Vanguard (Conceptual Artist) Ep. 9

The Colors of Life – Wendy Vanguard (Conceptual Artist) Ep. 9

September 25, 2019

In this very special episode, Steven Leavitt is joined by his first boss, Wendy Vanguard.  This becomes a touchstone for a very intriguing conversation that goes into mentorship, design, physics, energy, illustration, the emotional effect of color, the world of art in Los Angeles in the 70’s (the LA Women’s Building, AIDS, Roe v. Wade), parenting, and the dawn of computer-generated animation.

Wendy is a Los Angeles-based artist whose professional career has spanned work as an illustrator, an art director, broadcast designer and award winning corporate image designer.  Although she was awarded a Masters Grant from Art Center to pursue her painting, the hard-hitting reality of life in LA without a job lead her to abandon the grant and find employment.  Wendy quickly found she had constant work: from illustrating storyboards for advertising commercials and small films to exhibit design projects, and then began designing titles for television shows such as The Rockford Files, The Six Million Dollar Man, and Planet of the Apes.  She was a part of the creative design and production team for the Charles and Ray Eames Office and the creation of the film Powers of Ten.  Later, she worked as an Art Director for Universal Television supervising special effects projects (BattleStar Galactica) gave her a taste of working an industry job and this led to becoming a design director for renowned ground-breaking broadcast designer Harry Marks.  Wanting to work independently again, Wendy formed California Film, a broadcast design firm, choosing her own team of artists and designers to collaborate with and designing one of the earliest open plan office spaces. As it’s founder and Creative Director she led them in creating award winning image campaigns and corporate design packages for CBS Entertainment, CBS News, HBO, The Walt Disney Company, the Disney-owned Flagship station California 9 (KCAL), ABC Prime Time Live, National Geographic, TBN, The Movie Channel, and more. Wendy and colleagues created (fake) computer imagery for LucasFilm’s, “Return of the Jedi.”   At the same time she met and married photographer Mitch Dobrowner, who soon became part of her company, leading it in new technologies and production methods. 

After experiencing a devastating social experience, Wendy struggled through what she coined “the dark decade,” and discusses how she managed to work through this time in her life and find new joy by shifting her focus to her family, personal creative projects, and giving back to her community through mentorship. Throughout a lifetime of unexpected turns, struggles, and successes, Wendy rediscovered an inner resilience as a woman and artist that carries her along her path.

Guest: Wendy Vanguard Dobrowner 

Host: Steven Leavitt



See for featured works.


Blue Sphere Horizon


Master’s Thesis


Her Master’s Thesis would foreshadow her future work in design for what would become the future of 3D Animation, along-side filmmakers, computer scientists, and animators.


Watercolor Woman


Girl In Room (Watercolor)



“Podcast Long Chords” by Jason Dobrowner (guitar)

“The Crash” by Joshua Dobrowner (guitar)

“Mom Podcast” by Jason Dobrowner (guitar)

Additional scoring by Steven Leavitt

“Nothing Wrong” by Lobate Scarp 

Spirals and Portals EP out now!




Mitch Dobrowner

Landscape Photographer


Andy Hann


Jason Dobrowner

Composer, physicist, software engineer


Asia Forbes

Artist branding and events


Josephine Bakery


Art Center College of Design


Lorser Feitelson


Helen Lundeberg


Charles + Ray Eames office


Powers of Ten Film


Jo Perry


Tom Perry


Otis College of Art and Design


Art Center, Otis, motion graphics, hard edge painting, broadcast design, PDI, Rhythm and Hues, Blue Sphere Horizon, Charles Eames, Powers of Ten, physics, subatomic, Helen Lundeberg, Lorser Feitelson, California Film, image design, branding, Eames Office, mac, desktop publishing, easel, stylus, deadlines, emotion color, colour, energy, the future of work, creative problem solving, mentorship, empath, narcissist, The Sociopath Next Door, being used, cults, religion, working mother, Tao Te Ching, feminism, abortion, watercolor, oil painting, rediscovering your personal art, Damien Rice, PTSD, purpose



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